YPAO – The Lost Manual
Since this guide was written many years ago, I have spent 100s of hours learning about and testing all the Room Correction solutions as a way to create my perfect dedicated Home Cinema. While I have achieved that goal – and then some, I want you to be able to do the same. This is why I have written YPAO – The Lost Manual. If you have a Yamaha receiver, you need this guide!
Regardless, the below article is still relevant and I sincerely hope it will help you on your way to Home Cinema Nirvana. Yours truly. Roland
Introduction
I have been around to a friend recently who just bought the latest and greatest Avantage Receiver from Yamaha and AU$5000 worth of speakers but didn’t bother to read the manual in how to set up the receiver correctly.
Good sound is dependent just as much on doing the setup correctly, than it is on buying great gear. I was shocked and horrified to learn that after spending almost AU$10K on his setup, he didn’t bother to go through the expert setup procedure, he simply placed the mic on the couch (a big no no), measured one microphone position and off he went. Then he complained to me that the system sounded like $h1t, pardon my French! Of course it did…
However, after fixing his setup, I realised many people do the same, so it’s time for showing you how to do Yamaha YPAO – and actually most other home cinema receiver – setup correctly. Some of the advice below can be applied generally to all receivers. I will highlight Yamaha YPAO only advice here.
General Setup
Before anything else, you should go into the Manual Setup section under Speaker Setup and set the amp assignment correctly, dependent on which speaker terminals you used for which speakers and whether you used external amplification. You will need to refer to your receiver’s user manual as it does differ dependent on the the make and model of your receiver, even if we only look at Yamaha Receivers.
Microphone Placement
Firstly, auto setup should be configured as follows:
- Multi-position: this is true even if you are only using one chair in one position to listen to the system. Although manufacturers include a single placement setup procedure, it is nearly impossible to get great sound using only one sample. They will either over-correct or under-correct for variations in frequency response. ALWAYS select multi-position measurement.
- Angle Measurement (YPAO only): this will ensure that CinemaDSP will be configured correctly and if you have an ATMOS or DTS X enabled receiver, the height information will be used to ensure sounds are steered correctly to the different speakers. I would recommend to always select this option as well.
Ok, now with regards to Microphone placement:
- DO NOT place the microphone on a hard surface like a table or even your couch (either on the seat or head rest) by itself. This will allow it to absorb reflections from the couch or hard surface in a way that is not natural. Unless you plan on listening to your system by putting your ear where your @$$ is or by placing your head on the coffee table and resting your foot on the couch (sounds rather uncomfortable if you ask me!), do not do this.
- DO place the microphone on a tripod. The microphone has a grove that goes into your standard camera tripod. If you don’t have one of those, elevate the microphone by taping it to an upside down glass (the kind you drink out of). I usually use a plastic cup that has a slim bottom so it doesn’t act as a hard surface for reflections. Make sure you only tape the bottom of the mic. When I do this, I elevate the glass or cup using soft pillows to ear height, and not some other hard surface like a box or – as my friend did – a metal hollow side table.
- DO make sure that the microphone has a “line of sight” view of all the speakers in the room if possible – at all microphone positions. The only exception to this is the subwoofer which does not need to have a line of sight view from the mic. I sometimes make some exceptions to this when it is totally unavoidable. For example, I have the back surrounds on a bookshelf which the back seats don’t have a line of sight view of. When I switch to the calibration which includes all seating positions in my home cinema, there were some mic positions at the back that did not have a line of sight view. However, all the front seats did. Not a huge deal but I don’t listen with that calibration when we only sit in the front row as it’s not ideal.
Have a look at the diagram below which you can find variations of in Yamaha documentation. The below is the correct version with number 1 position being in the centre of the couch (or chair). Some versions of this diagram were incorrectly putting number 1 on the side of the couch.
However, this is where it ends for me. I usually do the following, which seems to work with YPAO and other receivers as well:
- Position 1: in the centre of the couch with microphone at ear height, away from the headrest of the couch. Basically, this is right in the centre of where your bum will be but at ear height. The reason this needs to be in the centre is that the delay / distance measurements are taken from the first position. If you were to place this first measurement off centre, some seats would get better distance measurements while others a lot worse. We want to even this out and have every seat experience the most ideal sound the room allows.
- Position 2: Same position as number 1 but to the seat to the right of the centre seat. On a 3-seater couch, this will be the right-most seat.
- Position 3: same as position 1 and 2 but to the left. In case you’re wondering, it doesn’t matter if you go left or right.
- Positions 4-6: Now I repeat the same measurements I did in Positions 1 to 3 but with the microphone placed much closer to the headrest where your ears would be, but at just enough height that it clears the back of the couch by a cm but also that it is getting some of the reflections off the back of the couch. Why? Because this is the position your ears will be AND there will be reflections that will muffle the sound that originate from the headrest of the couch.
- Positions 7 and 8: I normally do these positions just between positions 1-2 and 1-3 (just a little off-centre) but in the same elevation and distance from the back of the couch as positions 1 – 3. This is to ensure we give the receiver enough variation for the room acoustics and don’t overwhelm it with having to compensate for that particular couch.
If you were configuring one seating position, a chair or arm chair, do the above exactly but divide up the chair equally or do some positions to the left and right of the chair at ear height as well as just a bit in front and above ear height.
If you have multiple couches, I recommend, doing more positions on the couch that will be your primary listening position and doing the rest on the other couch(es) following the above principles.
YPAO – The Lost Manual has two tighter microphone positioning options that can give you better and tighter imaging even in larger spaces.
Angle Measurement (YPAO R.S.C. only)
YPAO in higher end Yamaha receivers will allow you to do something called an angle measurement. You will have to do this in Position 1 above, but use the little boomerang that came with your receiver like the one below.
The positions are marked. Position 1 on the boomerang must face towards your front speakers, while 2 and 3 towards the back. The boomerang can be fixed onto a tripod as well. I really recommend this. Otherwise the taping method works here as well.
Measure each position by following the on-screen guidance. Please note that the height position is only available on Atmos and DTS X receivers.
Manual Configuration
Cabling and Crossover
Once YPAO (or other Receiver config) has finished, check the following:
- Speaker cabling is normal in all positions.
- Check what the crossover frequency was set to on your speakers.
Even though your speakers may be able to do frequencies below 80hz, it is not recommended to go below this cross over for movies as those frequencies are hard to control even from the subwoofer alone. However, your milage may vary. If you don’t have a separate subwoofer EQ, but only using the Yamaha, you may want to leave crossovers below 80Hz or leave speakers as “large” so no crossover is applied to them. As a rule of thumb, if Yamaha configured your speakers with a high crossover, you should not lower it (e.g. from 100Hz to 80hz), you can however up the crossover frequency (e.g. from 60hz to 80hz).
The reason you should not lower crossover frequencies is because the setup routine determined that anything lower than the crossover frequency doesn’t reach the seating positions without major dips (-3dB which is 1/2 of the percieved volume) in frequency response. If you lower the crossover, you may still get an uneven response or may not hear certain frequencies at all as now the subwoofer is not playing them back either.
If the crossover set is much higher than you know the speakers can reproduce, you may want to repeat the setup routine paying attention to mic placement. If they still come up short, think about aiming the speakers with the woofers pointing at the main listening positions.
Equalisation Curve
The equaliser on Yamaha receivers can be set to the following:
- FLAT: this is the default. You should set this if you listen to a lot of TV, not just movies or you listen below reference level (around -17 volume on Yamaha receivers, 0 volume on THX and Audyssey enabled receivers) and your room has lots of soft furnishings.
- NATURAL: this is the old CinemaEQ curve. It tames the high end to make sure that movie soundtracks don’t sound too bright if you have a normal living room with lots of hard surfaces like floors and walls without carpet or other soft coverings. Also use this if you are listening to movies LOUD as otherwise even without hard surfaces, just being much closer to the speakers than in the cinema will elevate the high frequencies beyond what was intended. Please note that some DVDs and Blu Rays had EQ applied during mastering to lower the high frequencies for playback in the home. If a movie sounds too muffled with this, you have two options: up the treble 2dB which may work or switch to the flat curve.
- FRONT: this leaves your front left and right speakers alone and will timbre match all the other speakers to them. Unless you like how your front speakers sound because they are some ultra-expensive supersonic beasts, do not set this. Leave this alone. This is there to please a special few who spent $50K+ on their front two speakers.
- THROUGH: no EQ is applied. Why would you do this unless you sit inside an anaphoric chamber? Seriously! Don’t!
Other settings
- Adaptive DSP should be switched on. It variates the DSP strength based on volume.
- Adaptive DRC (Dynamic Range Control) should be switched on if you’re listening at lower volume levels (below -25). Anything above -25 I would recommend switching it off as it can introduce a harshness to certain sounds on any receiver without YPAO Volume.
- YPAO Volume should be switched on. I am going to do a review of it in June 2017, at which point I’ll make further recommendations and check if it needs to be switched off for reference listening (anything above -25 really).
Surround and Surround Back Speakers Volume Levels
The only major issue I see with Yamaha receivers – or most receivers that don’t have Audyssey – is that they don’t variate surround speaker volume levels dependent on volume. When listening to surround programs at lower volume levels, the surround and surround back speaker volumes might need to be increased in certain setups to maintain the same surround envelopment. I have heard different views on this but it seems to me like those that have their surround speakers at ear height seem to have less trouble with this than those who have them somewhat higher than ear height or further away than the front speakers.
I believe both Audyssey and Dolby researched this and found it to be true, however. I find the same when listening in my home cinema where the surround speakers are somewhat higher than my front speakers while my presence speakers are on a third plane altogether near the ceilings. I normally increase surround and surround back channels by 1-2 dB dependent on how loud someone is listening to the system in general. You could even design a reference setting and a low volume setting turning this and other features on and off. On Yamaha you can do this using something called “Scenes”.
Give me feedback in the comments below and let me know how you go! Happy Listening!
Related Professional Guide
If you need independent advice, or you just want to have a chat about your setup, please see my availability here.
Good thing your mate has you by their side, otherwise that’s a crime against the laws of sound!
I hope they also got some kind of AntiMode, I think that should come bundled with any decent sub, it’s THAT essential!
Good write up of YPAO though. In my experience I found the Single Point measurement, along with Angle adjustment, does a superb job, with sound steering and imaging. I’ve done Multipoint measurements {x4 positions: MLP, 1ft to the front and 1ft left & right of MLP} in the past and didn’t notice a massive difference, aside from it taking an extra 1-2db extra from the sub {per “seat”}, due to covering a larger area
Could be down to my listening area {3 seater in a 10 x 10ft room}, with only me watching, not being a big enough space to make it worth doing.
I’ll have to try the full 8 and get back to you.
By the way, here’s my setup:
Yamaha RXA3040 AVR
Yamaha MXA5000 power amp
B&W CM10 S2 Fronts {bi-amped}
B&W Centre 2 S2 {bi-amped}
B&W 685 S2 Surrounds.
SVS PC2000 x 2 {though currently only using the 1, as a 2nd doesn’t seem to add much for dual mono}, aside from being a bit smoother, I didn’t seem to have many nulls to fill.
As far as XO goes, YPAO sets them to 40hz by default, so I’ve found 60hz works best for the Fronts {any higher and I’d have to reverse sub phase}… and, well 60 all round really.
Something that did confuse me ’til I gave it thought was that it cut the bass from the Fronts at around 50hz by 10db {tested with test tones and SPL meter}. At first I thought YPAO was robbing me of it, then realised it was probably a massive peak it was simply flattening!
Yes I recommended a used SVS As-EQ1 like mine but he hasn’t done it yet. It’s a shame spending so much on a system and have a muffled sub. I said to him at least he needed to move it from next to the glass doors (!!!) but I did as much as I could to make the system sound better which it did, including the sub but you are right the sub was still not great.
Your setup is very good. I think 60hz is fine for crossover as long as there are no nulls. It sounds like you set things up great.
I would recommend you put the “right” mic positioning diagram (your approach) instead of the “wrong” one. Info should match, and visuals are better than text. I think you custom diagram will help better to achive the article goal. Thanks for all info shared, specially since for the Yammy community isnt much out there.
No worries, Javier. That’s a great suggestion. I will make a custom one. Or even a better idea! Are you good with graphics software? If you put one together, I can put it on the site and credit you with it. I’d love the community to contribute to the site. 🙂 let me know, otherwise I’ll put something together.
Send me an email so I can send something simple I created.
I don’t think I can do that, Javier. But there’s a contact form on the site that will go to my email. If you email me, I can email you back. Cheers!
Hi, thanks for this excellent guide – I am not experienced in this area so those informations are priceless for me. Currenlty I have yamaha rx-v773 and 5.1 set based on Dali Zensor 7, Zensor 1 and E-12 sub.
Honestly I have never used YPAO before – probably it is a mistake:)
There is a lot of people on a/v forums claiming that solutions like YPAO or even using DSP are doing more wrong than good for sound experience – well i just don’t know – currently i run only Sci-Fi DSP, manually set speaker distance and thats it. My ear is not very trained so while I tried to compare some DSP while watching movie it just sound…different:)
I presume that your recommendation is to definately use ypao and DSP for movies, isn’t it?
Well, listen Blazej. I think set it up both ways and see what your ears prefer. After all no matter how much one camp is saying use it, while the others say don’t, I think it depends whether you like the result or not.
My opinion is that those who don’t use EQ don’t know much about how to set them up to begin with. Yes, it takes time and care to not hurt the sound quality and I think when no such care is exercised you are better off turning it off for sure! Follow my advice and see if you like the result. If not, turn it off and don’t agonise over it.
I hope that helps.
Ps. I love the Sci Fi program on the Yamaha also. 🙂
Question about the levels: if the setup boosts certain frequencies even up to 5.5 db, should I reduce the overall gain of that channel by the same amount to prevent digital distortion?
In addition, do you prefer to listen in straight, surround processing, or pure direct? I feel like pure direct has the best sound imo (depth, response, naturalness) except when it’s stereo content and I can’t use my center channel for dialog.
Hi Edward,
Actually, if you’re using an external amp for those channels, increase the volume on the external amp and re-run the setup.
If you are running the internal amps, leave it as is. It’s really rare that digital distortion would occur with modern receivers. The only time I have heard digital distortion with a Yamaha was when using Dynamic DRC and only then with two movies out of hundreds and only on certain scenes.
Hi Edward,
Have a look at my article on CinemaDSP. But in essence, I don’t like pure direct because it doesn’t engage the EQ. If EQ is set up properly, it should clean up the muddiness in the sound. Unless of course you have an acoustically excellent room with little room interaction. In that case, pure direct may be better. Cheers!
Hmm I’ve read somewhere that the room EQ is still in effect for pure mode, just not any DSP…
I have my left and right channels (large towers) externally amped and center channel receiver amped on my yamaha tsr-7790bl. I find the room EQ adds at least 4.5db of gain on the center and none on my towers. I think it’s being overshadowed. The center’s PEQ also has points with an additional 5db of gain.
I tried lowering the overall channel gains by the highest PEQ gain amount, volume matched my L + R amp gain, and use volume control to increase volume. This actually sounded less harsh than the original setup. Do you think the op amp in the receiver is being over driven in the original setup?
Yes that is correct re overdriving the amp / introducing digital distortion due to the 10db overall gain. This is why it’s critical to level match first when using external amplification.
Pure direct should disengage the EQ (all digital circuitry actually – including video output on some models). Straight mode leaves EQ on but disengages any other DSP. However, for surround processing, straight mode will still allow you to do pro logic, Dolby, DTS matrix decoding.
What are your thoughts about YPAO setting the front left and right speakers to large but leaving everything else small? My speakers (XTZ M6) are stand-mounted and not floor-standing. The consensus on the web is to always leave speakers as small, typically with an 80 Khz cut-off. I reset mine to small after YPAO runs, but why would it set them to large? Would you recommend leaving them this way based on what YPAO does? Thanks.
Hi Martin, THX recommends an 80Hz crossover because any frequency below 80Hz is best played back by one or a group of subwoofers where the interactions with the room can be controlled easier than if those frequencies were emitted by the main speakers.
However, if you don’t have a great subwoofer EQ, you may get better results by leaving the main speakers as large. I would try both and see which sounds better in your setup.
Great article!! I am so thankful for this because I’ve found there’s a lot of info on Audyssey, but very little about YPAO.
I run the Yamaha A3050 in a 5.2.2 setup with Def Tech’s & no external amplification. When I run YPAO it sets my front towers & center to large XO at 40 KHz. I’ve switched them all back to small & set them back to 80 KHz. Does this have anything to do with the fact that all are powered with subs built in? What is your recommendation?
Thanks again!!
Hi Russ, I’m happy people find it useful. 🙂 Yes, def if they have built in subs, YPAO will set the XO to the limit of the speakers (where they start rolling off -3dB actually). THX recommends setting everything to 80Hz for the simple reason that controlling issues below 80Hz is hard enough as it is using (a group of) subs let alone if they are coming from all speakers. I agree but only if you can position and EQ your sub(s) well. Otherwise, try both and see which sounds better. That’s my usual recommendation.
For my setup, I use Audyssey for the sub (SVS AS-EQ1) and YPAO for the main speakers. This gives me the best of both worlds. In such a setup, 80Hz crossover makes perfect sense, as Audyssey does a much better job below 80Hz than YPAO and YPAO does a much better job above 80Hz than Audyssey. 🙂
Great article! I followed multi-point placement as recommended and my fronts, center, subs all sound great. The problem is my side surrounds are really low. I’ve got the levels on Surround L and Surround R at +10 dB each. They sound great when playing music (9 channel stereo) but for a movie on blu-ray or directv (both a good dolby source) the surround audio is just too low. YPAO measured the distance around 10.5 feet (they’re also 9 feet off the ground). My other AVR, sr6011 running audyssey, sounds great and has no problem with the surround audio. Is there anyway for YPAO to up that surround audio level or is this just an inherent problem with the Yamaha and YPAO
My setup
Yamaha a2070
Klipsch RP-260f
Klipsch 450c
pb-1000, klipsch r-10sw
def tech 600’s
Hi Travis,
That is rather strange.
First thing is check your source equipment that you didn’t set it to stereo output by mistake. I’ve done that to my blu Ray player when connecting it to a TV then forgot to set it back!
Then could you please check you have them connected to the correct terminals (you didn’t swap side and back surrounds by mistake)? If they are connected to the correct terminals, check the phase (red to red, black to black). If it’s all good, time to reset the receiver.
If that doesn’t fix it, it may be worth trying switching the receiver to 4ohm in advanced settings.
If still not ok, try lowering all other speaker levels to keep them relatively high.
I have a rxa 860. After doing only one measurement position, ypao set my eq to flat. I didn’t have much bass on this setting at all but when I set it to through the bass was alot more powerful. I don’t have a subwoofer, just a 5 speaker system. All Polk. Tsx 550’s, 250 and 220’s. Should I re-up ypao in the multiple positions and try again? There was a really big difference in bass response with all things being equal from flat to through.
Hi Jon,
Yes, re-do YPAO with multiple positions and also turn on “Extra bass” in the settings if bass is still lacking. You can also get bass back with the tone controls. Also if your receiver has YPAO volume, turn it on as it will shape bass and treble according to volume which is what will actually sound flat but full at all volumes.
I don’t have a camera tripod but I do have a flexible lamp stand that can be easily twisted to the appropriate locations. Would this be okay to tape the YPAO mic to? I have recently acquired an RX-A3060
Yes, Bruce. I think that would be ok as long as it doesn’t have a large hard surface under the mic to obstruct and reflect sound back into the mic.
Hi Roland,
Thanks regards the mic setup.
Just completing the wiring and component set up of my system at present. Going with a 7.2.4
Do I setup my PB16 Ultra after I do the YPAO for the whole system or before?
The other sub in the system is a 12″ I’ve had for many years and I’m wondering if it will help the overall sound of the system.
If going dual subs, I understand its best to have matching subs and probably next best with subs of similar capability, but will the introduction of the smaller sub help with any nulls or highs or any other benefits or will it be too difficult to setup?
Should I get an MiniDSP and REW or something else to get the best integration?
I would recommend a Dirac-enabled MiniDSP or an Audyssey-enabled subwoofer EQ like the SVS AS-EQ1 or the Audyssey sub EQ. The last two options can be had cheap used!
If you are using the above, you need to set up the yamaha without the subs and then set them up with the EQ in the chain after turning on the subs in the yamaha again.
If you are using MiniDSP without Dirac, just frequency correction, you should correct the most obvious issues first then let the Yamaha correct the rest in my opinionz
I’m afraid I’m probably as guilty as your friend. I have tried to run through the YPAO on my CXA5100/MXA5000 setup, but I haven’t found the time to really get into the nitty gritty.
I think I only did one position too, so I guess I’ll be back to it at next opportunity. I do use an Anti-Mode with my Dali E12F. I have Dali Ikon 5 Mk2 s up front with an Ikon Vokal, Ikon wall mounted surrounds and a pair of Zensor 1s for surround back. I installed 4 JBL 26Cs in the ceiling for the Atmos duty.
The sound, whilst good, does feel like it should be better for the outlay!
I did buy a MiniDSP mic, but again I haven’t got into the REW process of measuring and setting equalisers etc.
Yes, sounds like it’s time to redo the calibration! 😉
I’ve gotta be honest. It’s either Dirac or Audyssey for the subwoofer channel if you can swing it. Some of the MiniDSP does Dirac. Audyssey, only SVS or Audyssey but I think their subEQ may no longer be in production so a used unit. I’m using an SVS-AS EQ1 and it makes a huge difference
Hi, congratulations for l, very good item. I would appreciate it if you could give me some advice. My system consists of a front b & w 683 s2, a central B & w Htm61s2, a 685s2 surround b & w, an atmos on the sofà the B & W m1, the SVS sb2000 subwoofer, the AV YAMAHA 2060, the POWER AMP for the front ROTEL rb1582mk2, all in a 12x13ft room. I’ve made various measurements with ypao, but often the music is more dynamic in pure direct, with flat or natural the music has too high and the image is decentralized. With movies the dynamics and effects are more beautiful with ypao natural. The atmos speaker in any way make ypao sound better in trough, the ypao chart unlike the other speakers have very high gains -8db to +7db, what’s wrong? The subwoofer after the ypao measurement I have to lower it by -2db though it is too loud is annoying, and when I listen to movies in the dolby atmos (Mad Max, Sant Andreas, Transformers etc.) I have to lower the subwoofer’s volume to -5db to avoid the clipper , it’s normal? Also when active in Neaural X I have the impression that they increase the bass of the subwoofer, is it possible? I would like to know about the size of my room what kind of ypao I should do, how many positions, how far the various measurements and how tall. Any advice and opinion to be able to improve will be accepted. thank you
Hi Vincenzo,
Well, there seem to be a couple of issues. It sounds like the two amps may not be properly volume aligned? Could you please check this? If the surrounds and Atmos speakers have very high gains, you may need to decrease the volume on the other amp.
Secondly, I would do the measurements again as described in the article.
Thirdly, YPAO does set the subwoofer a bit too hot so it’s ok to lower the volume by 1-3 dB. Especially with YPAO volume on, it can get a bit boomy. This is why I personally use a separate subwoofer equaliser and properly volume level the sub manually.
Thirdly, music isn’t really mastered to a specific standard like movies are to so you may have better luck by doing the following: set YPAO to FLAT then set bass and treble to your satisfaction on the input you normally listen music on. You may want to use the iPhone app to control the yamaha. It’s much easier to see what you’re setting etc.
For music, I also like to use 9 channel stereo setting or the music video DSP.
Again, since there is no mastering standard for music, you may find you need to adjust things per genre or even per album.
I like to get your opinion. I have RX-A3070 and ran through the multi-position angle calibration. YPAO decided to set my Polk Audio LSi25, LSi-C, and LSi-FX (Bipole position) to LARGE with Crossover 60hz in the front and 40hz in the rear.
What I ended up on doing is going back to manual setup, and changed all the speakers to Small. I have my front setup is the LSi25 10″ subs are powered by a 300watt (each side) amp. So I have SW1 and SW2 with layout Left&Right.
I left the YPAO recomment cross-over frequency. However I feel my bass is a bit weak and center for dialog is a bit low too
It’s not unusual that YPAO does that. It’s ok to set the speakers small and then set the crossover to 80hz as recommended by THX. It makes controlling the bass easier. You CAN turn extra bass feature on to have the bass come from both main and sub. I think you may need to set the main speakers as large for that though.
In any case, you can increase the bass using the bass trim feature if you require or in manual setup. Same goes for the centre speaker and see how you go.
If you’re listening at lower volume, have both dynamic DRC and YPAO volume activated for sure. There’s also the dialog level feature to only increase the dialogue and it works with all sources, not just DTS X.
If you’re still having issues with the bass after this, you can either manually tune the bass PEQ curve or get a sub EQ that will do it automatically for you – something Dirac or Audyssey based.
Thank you so much for this article and your responses to people, so helpful!
Question on results, should you adjust distances if they appear off or keep ypao results?
I have a fairly rectangular room, 10′ wide by 19′ deep; minus irregularities in flatness it is controlled space (I closed off part of a room). I have an rxa3050 in a 7.2.4 configuration using an emotive amp for the rear presence. Seating is a 3 across row of seats with roughly the same space on either side for walking path, so position 1 is near as close to center across as possible.
After running ypao the fronts and the rear presence come back with different distances for the respective left/right. While there may be sub 1′ distance in my by eye measures it isn’t +3′. Should I be adjusting to (near) equal or keep what ypao comes back with?
Also can you explain the difference/reasons to go left&bright or monaural x2 on the subs? They are both in front next to left/right.
Thanks again!
No worries at all, Ken.
I would keep the distances as YPAO doesn’t only measure the distance from the speaker but delays in applying correction and waves bouncing off walls, etc. this is especially important on the subwoofer as it is actually delaying the sub so the frequencies arrive at the same time as the main speakers and not just the physical distance. It is normally pretty accurate.
Monoaural versus left and right.
As you know The sub takes the LFE information (.1) plus any frequencies from all the other speakers below the set crossover point (normally 80hz or whatever you set). If you set them to monoaural, both subs will play the same: all the speaker info below 80hz. If you set them to L and R, they will both play LFE but the L sub will play all low frequencies from the left speakers (front left, surround left, back surround left, etc) and the R sub will play the right speaker information.
I would try both and see which one you prefer. For mainly movie listening, monoaural is likely better (or back and front). For music, some prefer L and R.
However, just be mindful that with two subs positioning (or a sophisticated subwoofer EQ) is even more important. Do some research to get the best out of them.
I have an RX-V483 and haven’t run YPAO yet. I am using a PDR-100, Monitor 7’s for my left and right, Monitor 5’s for the rear, and a CC-350 for center. All are set to small with a Crossover at 60 on the sub and receiver menu. Something sounds off though. Treble is a little high and the bass seems like it doesn’t flow?
Any ideas?
Yes, try and run YPAO and either use Flat or if there’s still too much treble: Natural!
If bass is still an issue, you may need to try moving the sub first (read its manual: some subs need to be in corners, others should not be) and if all else fails: a sub EQ.
Excellent Write Up. Going to pick up my tripod today and do the multi-point measurement!
Thx, James. Good luck. Let us know how you go!
Thank you
Quick question, I appreciated the article by the way. I am coming from a Pioneer 1222-k and am used to MCACC. I would usually run the MCACC once, it would set distance and set my front speakers(Acoustic Research 310HO) to large, I would then save the setting but change the speakers to small, and re-run it(manual config). I just got a TSR 7810, and my question is that after running the multi-seat YPAO, and changing the speakers to small and 80hz, do I have to re-run YPAO again with the speakers at the new setting?
No worries, Owen. No, you don’t need to re-run YPAO with the new settings. In fact you can’t otherwise your manual changes will be gone!
Looks like a bit of work. Just ordered the RX-A770BL to replace a Marantz SR6003 which went bad on the HDMI. I did the Marantz manually since I did not care for the Audyessy sound. I too have dual SVS subs and all SVS speakers. Am I reading the manual correct when it wants the subs set to half volume and full frequency? I will give the YPAO a swag since it looks like the manual setup for this AVR is quite different than on the Marantz. Thanks for the info quite detailed.
Yes you are reading it right, Joe! Half volume so they have headroom and there’s no risk of overdriving them. If YPAO can’t volume match them, it will say so. 🙂
Oh well the RX-A770BL does not support the multi-position. So be it. But thanks for the information still very informative. Thanks
You can still use the advice to properly position the one seating position you do have. You’ll get better results than just plunking it on the chair or backrest of your sofa.
Hi Roland,
Great site and article!! Nice to see some advice for us Yamaha owners. I recently purchased a new RX-V1083 Yamaha receiver and Klipsch speakers and subwoofer (R-10 sw). I followed your instructions and ran multi YPAO. I set my sub volume to half and phase to full and every time it configures my sub to -10db. I have to turn the sub volume down to around 1/3 and re-run YPAO to get the right correction around 0 db. Is this normal or do you have any recommendations? Thanks!
Hi Gary,
Yes that’s fine. It sounds like your sub has plenty of power for your room and will provide ample headroom for a distortion-free subwoofer channel.
You can adjust the sub volume to taste using the mobile app once the setup has been done btw. I turn mine up a few dBs from baseline.
After doing the 8 position YPAO, setting all my speakers to 80hz, my subs were set to a level of -0.5, which is fine. I still thought my bass was lacking a bit, so I hit options on the controller and up the sub trim by +5.0 dB. My questions is did I negate what YPAO did, did I mess it up by changing the trim?
Apologies for the very late answer. Nope, it is alright to raise or lower the trip on the subwoofer after running YPAO. YPAO is not always the best with subs!
What is the basis for your statement: “…reference level (around -17 volume on Yamaha receivers, 0 volume on THX and Audyssey enabled receivers)”? This would seem a very strange and arbitrary setting for Yamaha to use in its configuration.
Industry standard seems to be to set 0 to be reference level so that it is easy to determine the precise volume level you are listening at. I cannot find anything in the Yamaha manual that would indicate that the volume for reference is -17. I know that systems like Audyssey uses -30dBfs level test tones to calibrate speaker level settings which should result in 85dB spl at 0 volume.
Hi Greg,
Based on measurements with a calibrated mic and how compensation is applied.
THX and Audyssey systems do set the reference level at 0. Yamaha receivers don’t as a consistent standard, no. But let us know how your Yamaha behaves.
Yamaha’s THX receivers like the Z9 and Z11 did use 0 as reference as far as I recall. Of course Yamaha no longer seeks THX certification even for their top end gear.
Wow , thanks for doing this. Great article and well written.
Hi Ronald, Thanks for detailed information.
I’ve RX-A870 and I wanted to know configuration of setting up speakers.
My speakers are two NS-777, one center speaker, two monitor speakers.
I want to setup NS-777 as front speakers with bi-amp configuration and two monitor speaker as rear surround speakers.
Could you guide me configuration setup please ?
Hi Rahul,
You will need to set up the fronts with the bi-amp option and connect the rear speakers to the SIDE surround output and not the rear surround output even if they are in the rear if they are the only set of surround speakers.
If you look in the manual, you should have an option for front bi-amp setting for speaker setup with internal amps for both front and rear.
Hello,
I have a Yamaha 2060 how do I completely turn the Ypao off in the settings?
You can select “Through” for the EQ curve which will apply no EQ.
Oh, and you may also need to turn off YPAO volume if you don’t want loudness correction.
“If the crossover set is much higher than you know the speakers can reproduce, you may want to repeat the setup routine“
How much is much higher? My front speakers are thx satellites mk sound s150 that from 80hz and up and YPAO sets them To 120 I have manually corrected them to 80hz but then read the above in your article
Yeah, it happens that the mic positions are just not getting energy below 120hz, especially if the speakers aren’t pointing directly to the listening positions. You can set them to 80hz if that sounds better but I recon speaker angle may make some difference if you can angle them differently…
Hi Roland, with an rx-v683 does YPAO remember calibration for different amp configurations, I’d like switch between bi-amp for music and 5.2.2 for movies.
Hi Rothgar,
If you look in the manual and it says you have two “patterns” available for speaker configuration then you can switch between bi-amp and another config. If it doesn’t have it then not. I haven’t had time to have a peek for you, sorry. But hope this helps to figure it out. 🙂
FYI, it does look like it’s possible 🙂
Great, will give it a go today, many thanks Roland!
Calibrated again, bi-amp first then 5.2.2, recorded the results, seems to just use the last calibration made. So no, don’t think it saves individual results for different amp setups, oh well, maybe on the Aventage series it does.
The advantage series allows you to choose two speaker patterns with different settings for amp assignment etc. are you absolutely sure there isn’t a Speaker a Pattern setting on yours?
If it absolutely doesn’t, one thing to try would be to do the calibration with one pattern, copy the settings into the manual slot, then change pattern, calibrate again. That way you could select the manual calibration when needed. 🙂
Yeah, no speaker patterns choice on the rx-v683. Hmm, I don’t think that will work, whatever changes you make in manual settings override the auto settings, there is no choice to switch between the two unless you changed all the settings every time one wanted to switch amp configs which would be impractical, and I do need set sub crossovers manually as it just sees all my speakers as large. Thanks for thinking about it though Roland, much appreciated.
Yes, you’re right, you’d have to change other configuration but the calibration wouldn’t have to be re-done so if it’s changing it for movie night once a week, it’s ok. If it’s constant reconfiguration, it’s impractical.
No worries at all. I’m sorry we couldn’t figure it out for ya.
Thanks a lot for the great article and further tons of information during your responses to questions. It’s commendable that you take the efforts to reply to every query that comes your way, after publishing this wonderful article. I just bought a A2070 and was kind of blank on what it does differently in various modes. I come from a 2010 Onkyo NR906 that had only Audyssey Multeq but was doing a fantastic job. While was very pleased with ability to switch YPAO modes on the fly while listening, I was neither able to figure out which mode is good for my Room nor decipher differences in each mode. Luckily landed on this page and so happy that I did.
After all that got mentioned above, now I have questions on YPAO 🙂 I completed YPAO calibration for all 8 positions and also completed 4 position angle and height measurement. I run a 5.2.2 configuration, with my Onkyo powering the Front Speakers as an external amplifier.
1. All my speakers, including Atmos enabled Klipch front presence speakers and KEF Surround speakers were configured as large, that I find very intriguing. Though I have manually corrected all of the speakers to Small with appropriate crossovers, still wondering why would YPAO configure Surround and Presence speakers as Large?
2. After the calibration, like I was doing with my Onkyo, I measured SPL levels for all speakers to balance them and to my astonishment, the SPL meter was not even registering the test tone even at the lowest setting possible (55 db). I was always setting the SPL levels for all the speakers to 75 db level and I was able to do that on A2070 as well with the previous 3 Position calibration attempt. Any reason you can think of for this?
3. However, when playing the movies, I was again surprised that even with volume at -15, the perceived loudness is very close to what I was used to from my Onkyo, that was set for SPL level of 75 db. You mentioned above in one of the responses that Yamaha hits the Reference level at volume level of -17. What I am not able to understand is, with SPL reading below 55 db, how am I hitting reference level while listening at -15 volume level?
Thanks in advance for any insights into the above issues.
Hi VS,
Thank you for your kind words. I’m happy to help if I can. It’s great to share the hobby you love with others.
I’ve got to say I have come to accept that YPAO makes some strange decisions with crossover at times. It’s got to do with what it can actually measure at the listening positions. I have bookshelves with a port hole at the back that can go down quite low when placed near a wall due to boundary gain for the lower octaves but don’t measure so low when not close to the wall or higher up on the wall. Of course those lower octaves aren’t that cleanly reproduced so I normally cut them with an 80hz crossover.
The same goes for my THX speakers. They can do down to around 60hz well but I set them at 80hz.
The second part of this equation is to do with the subwoofer. If the Yamaha is not “hearing” the lower octaves properly between 40hz and 80hz, it may set some the speakers large to try and compensate.
Mmm, I don’t know what was going on with your SPL meter or how you were producing the test tone. You may need to switch the mode / weighting on your meter possibly?
Yes, correct. The Yamaha produces the correct volume at -17 to -15. It’s again one of those strange things Yamaha landed on. I’m not sure why.
I cannot understand why ypao set my sub level to +1db.The bass is loud enough but seems strange that it goes to +db I have the sub gain knob set to 12 o’clock .
On my previous pioneer receiver when set to 10 o’clock that set level to -10db.
the sub is a mksound x10 with plenty of power.
+1dB is fine. Dependent on the EQ you apply, you would set different gain so even during multiple runs you can get variation as the system tries to figure out the best balance. The question is whether it sounds good!
I set my subwoofer to +3 because I like more low end. 😉
Thanks for the great info Roland. I have looked all over the web for some info and nothing comes close to the great knowledge you have shared on the Yamaha. I just had a new system installed and have been a bit confused by the set up. I have a basic 5.1 set up-all ceiling speakers, 3 B&W ccm cinema 7’s in front and 2 B&W 683’s as surrounds, 2 ML Dynamo 1000 subs up front and a Yamaha RX 2070 amp. I will run the multi point after reading your article but should I run the height/angle too being that they are all ceiling speakers? I ran the single point YPAO initially and the results show all distances to speakers differently even though they are at equal distances from the listening position, also all the speaker and sub decibels are set differently, should I change them manually or leave them as set by YPAO? I don’t know if this is has anything to do with the YPAO settings too but sub 2 always makes a popping sound and goes into standby mode, the subs then don’t wake up until they get a heavy bass signal. The other thing that confuses me is the large or small speaker configuration, everything online says set speakers to small otherwise they could be damaged but this set up has them set as large, will it be safe to run them this way? Thanks for your much appreciated help!
Hi Pete,
Yes, definitely run multi-point and angle measurement. Distances will be more accurate! Don’t change them manually as they are a time-alignment more than distance based, especially for the subs! There is mostly correlation with distance but depends on reflection / when primary wave arrives.
I would also switch power saving off on your subs while you are calibrating if you can… the issue seems more like your subs than the Yamaha in this case. I have power saving on my sub and it does make a little popping sound when it comes on initially but it will stay on for the duration of a movie even without much bass content.
It is safe to leave speakers as large but dependent on the speakers and sub, raising the crossover to 80hz might be a good idea. Never lower crossover however. If the crossover is too high, angle speakers properly towards listening position or change location of speaker slightly and re-run.
Haha, Roland, sorted it, I peq calibrated just the 5.2 bi-amp setup, because calibration settings are totally bypassed when playing in Atmos or DTS-X, on this model at least, and I only use those speakers when using Atmos/DTS-X. Problem solved.
I am trying to calibrate without subwoofer because I have bought an antimode, but since my speakers a sattelite mksound s150 series that requires a subwoofer. The YPAO gets everything wrong. Distance is way off as in bonkers wrong. so for now I run with the through setting
Just a quick note from an unusually sunny UK to say thanks for the article. Following your instructions, the sound field is a lot lot better. Too much of base with the likes of Mad Max but that may just be the way that it was mixed.
Thank you, Kevin – and apologies for the late reply. You can turn down the sub using the sub trim. YPAO isn’t always the best with subs.
Hello
Do you Know if Audyssey subeq can be used without Audyssey licence, like Svs as-eq1 ? The unit is the same.
I want upgrade my rx-a3030 equ capability.
But i don’t own Audyssey Licence.
Thanks in advance
Yes the SVS as-eq1 can be used without a license. The Audyssey subeq needs a licence. Cheers!
I am having an issue with my new RX-A2060 that hopefully you are willing to help me with.
First off, great article, and great site. I have spent a few hours now reading through and soaking up your advice. Your knowledge and willingness to help others is commendable.
My question/problem: In the simplest way I can describe, I seem to be getting only LFE from the sub and no actual ‘bass.” I do an equal amount of two channel music listening as I do movies. Music is extremely important to me, and probably more important that it sounds perfect, than the surround sound does. But when listen to STRAIGHT mode for stereo listening, there is very little bass or no bass through my subwoofer. If I raise the physical sub volume to a level that sounds balanced for listening to music, when switching back to 7.1, the LFE are LITERALLY so loud, they make my house groan and shake. It is WAY out of balance with the rest of the speakers.
I have run YPAO multiple times. I have the physical sub level at about 40%, subwoofer output on RX-A2060 plugged into the LFE input of the sub. Even at the 40% volume setting, the YPAO sets the sub level to the range of around -7.5. My speakers are all set to small. Fronts and center XO at 80Hz, surrounds and front presence speakers at 120Hz. At these YPAO settings, it all sounds rather fine in 7.1, while watching movies in STRAIGHT mode. LFE are at a loud, but appropriate level. But I still feel like all I am getting out of the sub is LFE. No real “bass.” Meaning no bass notes for score or things that aren’t explosions or effects. And then once again, when I switch over to two channel music, or even two channel video (Netflix, Hulu) there is no true bass. I have tried the EXTRA BASS setting, it does add some bass, but it sounds strange and bloated like there is a bunch of overlapping frequencies coming from both the speakers and sub. My previous MARANTZ had a sub setting possibly called BOTH, which sent bass and LFE information to the sub. But I am not seeing anything like this in the Yamaha. And I see no way of turning down the LFE channel, without turning the subwoofer level down in the settings, further reducing any actual bass. Am I missing something? Is there an alternative way I should be hooking up the sub? Possibly using the FRONT Pre outs to the sub?
Thank you in advance for any help! And keep up the great site Roland!
Gear list:
Yamaha RX-A2060
Def Tech SuperCube II sub
Def Tech Procenter 200
Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary speakers (Currently, but lot’s others, Def Tech, Paradigm, Klipsch)
Mirage Nanosat Prestige for FP and surround
Hi Micah,
May I ask why you don’t use the DSP modes for movies? I think you are missing a lot by not doing that.
With regards to your sub, it’s an interesting one. Music of course is not authored to a standard sound pressure level like movies are.
Short advice:
1. Make sure YPAO Volume is ON
2. Make sure Adaptive DSP is ON (although I think this may be forced with point 1.)
3. Ensure there are no speakers in your setup without a crossover applied.
4. Install the phone app and use the subwoofer trim function to adjust sub volume to preference when listening to music.
If the above doesn’t solve the issue:
1. Check input you are using on the sub
2. Check the filters on your sub are in bypass mode or set the highest possible.
Just another note: I have had the best results in equalising the volume between movies and music by properly equalising my sub. Without an extra equaliser, you may want to check sub placement also.
Let us know how you go with the above. It’s definitely not exhaustive but it gets more complex from here…
Hi, I have a TSR-7850. When I set the front speakers to small and set crossover to 120hz, then run the YPAO auto calibration, and when this has finished and I go back to the speaker settings , it shows the speakers as large and set to 80hz. The small Mirage speakers cant handle high volume at 80 herz as they will start clipping. THis is why i set them to 120hx or 160hz. Why does the Auto calibration change these values back to Large and 80 ? And if after calibration I change them to 120hz again will this ruin the calibration ? Thanks in Advance for any help.
Hi Dolf,
No to fret, you can change the crossover upwards (from 80hz to 120hz) without any major issues. It’s only the other way round you shouldn’t do.
The Yamaha is setting those speakers to 80hz for one of two reasons:
– it is picking up good reproduction from those speakers at the test volume.
– because of interactions from walls and furniture in the room, there’s an amplification of volume in the lower region from those speakers
In any case, it doesn’t hurt to up the crossover.
Cheers!
Hi Roland,
Thanks for the reply and help. I’ll answer your questions in the same order you asked.
I use STRAIGHT for multi channel listening because as someone with a Bachelors Degree in audio engineering, I want to hear the material as close to the original engineer’s “vision” as possible. I don’t want any added DSP or reverberations. I am of the understanding that STRAIGHT gives me all the encoded channels of the source material (5.1, 7.1, etc) but does the minimal amount of processing other than distance/time and equalization at the listening position. Am I wrong about this? What setting do you use/prefer?
Turning on the YPAO volume and Adaptive DSP did help bring the LFE sounds and bass closer together in volume, so thank you for that suggestion. But it still was too large of a discrepancy between bass and LFE. Sooooo…
I double checked everything you suggested (again) but everything was as it should be. I could still not get satisfaction with the subwoofer using the sub output and LFE input. WAY loud LFE sounds and very weak actual bass notes, especially listening to music. As an experiment, I used the L/R pre output into the low level R/L input on the sub. VIOLÁ!!! There it was ACTUAL, glorious bass notes, even at the previously set 40% volume on the physical subwoofer. In the Yamaha menu, I turned Subwoofer to “off,” which sets the front speakers to large. My current bookshelf speakers play well to about 60Hz roll off below that, so I used about 50 for the XO for the sub. This is not an ideal situation, since the speakers are being fed the full frequency spectrum and there is some overlap between the sub and the speakers, but it is much better than the previous set up. It frustrates me knowing this is not the proper way to hook this up because something is not working or set properly. (I think.) BUT it’s much better than it was previously. I am going to look into other options. I went to REL’s website, and read their hook up diagrams and help/suggestions. They believe in hooking a sub up using HIGH LEVEL inputs AND LFE input. So I might consider trying that. I would allow me to set the speakers back to small, turn the Subwoofer back to ON in the menu, use the Yamaha’s XO, adjust the LFE to my liking. Hopefully being able to balance the bass and LFE volumes. Thoughts?
Yes that was going to be my next suggestion: hooking up both high-level and low-level inputs. But dependent on the sub it can be a bit complex. I think some REL subs allow you to use the amplified input from L/R and adjust that separately from LFE to mix in. In that case it is ok to leave the front L/R as large speakers and let the Yamaha do its filters on the full spectrum. This however does require setting levels correctly before calibration so does get a bit more complex. Sounds like you’re on the right track… 🙂
Mmmm, gearing sound as the director intended. Well, that’s what Yamaha DSP for movies is trying to do:
YPAO takes away the room reflections and other nasties colouring the sound. Yamaha DSP then adds bank the reflections you would be hearing if you were sitting in a large movie theatre. I’m afraid you won’t hear the sound as intended if you simply play it back without:
1. Equalisation
2. The correct high frequency roll off for your room (normally Natural for the YPAO calibration)
3. Loudness correction (YPAO Volume) OR playing it back at reference level.
4. Creating the reflections that you would hear in a proper cinema.
That’s only for movies of course. Music is not authored to any standard whatsoever I’m afraid so unless you were playing things back in the original mastering room at the mastering volume, who knows what was intended. Adjust to your liking and enjoy. 😉
Ok I have a rxa3070 with a 7.2.4 set up and everything sounds great except I feel like my rears are not kicking out enough and I did the 8 positions calibration with angles etc and it set my subs to -10db all large speakers at 80hz I believe but the volumes from my rears suck to me, my sides are louder and creating more sound to me which dominates the rears and the sides are def tech bipolars, my rears are newly purchased B&W 606 bookshelves. So far I’ve left the settings as is but would desire more from behind but I thought that if I increase dB levels on the rears it would take my Atmos setup out of the correct phase for like the helicopter flyovers, plane flying over head etc. what is your thought on this issue?
Things to check:
That you have external amplification for at least two of the channels. If not, one of speakers will always be off – incidentally the back speakers.
Secondly I would turn on YPAO volume and Adaptive DSP. At lower volumes the rear can feel like it’s lower in general.
Thirdly, I would make sure that the surround processing is doing PLIIx for material that has no flag or discrete info to put to the back. It’s buried in setting or options somewhere but worth checking. I recommend using the detailed web interface if you can. It’s your amp’s IP /setup/ so something like
192.168.1.23/setup/
Don’t forget the second / at the end.
Some more suggestions:
– make sure the back speakers are firing at the listening position directly and the calibrating mic has direct line of site to the drivers when calibrating if possible!
– if all else fails, you CAN increase the volume of the speakers especially if you do listen at lower volumes in general.
Greetings. I have a RX-A1070. The Yamaha YPAO R.S.C microphone cable length is ~15′ too short to reach my viewing area. Is the solution as simple as getting a mono microphone 1/4″ cable extension?
Yes it should be ok. Give it a try. I would worry about noise and signal loss a little so pick the shortest extension that will work.
Every time I start my Yamaha RX-A660 the YPAO menu shows up. I have to hit an HDMI input to remove it. Is there a way to shit that initial menu off?
Hi Robert,
Have you unplugged the YPAO mic from your unit? Try plugging it in and unplugging it again!
If the issue still occurs, you will need to contact Yamaha as your unit may be faculty. Hope you can sort it out!
Hi Roland,
This is one of the best write-ups I’ve read on setting up a home cinema. Much appreciated for writing it in language that I (sort-of) understand.
But my problem is that I can never hear the voices in the centre channel when playing back movies after doing the YPAO set-up.
I have a Yamaha RX-V1083 Receiver, Yamaha NS-70 Tower speakers for front speakers, a Yamaha NS-C120 for a centre speaker, and Yamaha NS -90 speakers for my rear surrounds. YPAO sets all my speakers to LARGE.
It sets the centre speaker volume at 3.5 but at that level I can’t hear the voices when playing a movie so i up have to up it to at least 6 to make out the voices.
But am I defeating the whole set-up process by increasing the centre so much?
Graham
Hi Graham,
Thanks for that. 🙂
Well, at the end of the day you have to be happy with it. Did you install the iPhone app? It has a dialog level feature which will apply EQ and a bit of volume boost to the dialogue in the centre channel. It may be better than raising volume on centre speaker.
However, that’s only a quick fix. A few things will affect dialog intelligibility:
1. Centre speaker placement and angle! Is it on a shelf? Have you angled it towards you?
2. Anything between you and the speaker: non-carpeted floor or Coffee table will make things worse. Also walls too close to the speaker.
3. The wall behind you! Is it right behind your seating position? Is it completely uncovered? You may need to think about room treatment.
4. DSP: Standard and Drama movie DSPs will aid dialogue by reducing reflections at the front of the sound stage. Sci fi DSP is probably on the other end of the scale and may make dialogue issues worse…
Lastly, don’t be afraid to turn the volume up on the centre channel, or better yet altogether when watching a movie. Movies have massive dynamic range and were designed to be listened to at reference level. If you cannot do that, turn on:
Adaptive DSP
Adaptive DRC
YPAO Volume
You should probably have those on all the time anyway…
Great article and q&a. Just wanna pop in and say I followed your advice on here and my 3070 with the klipsch reference premier 5.1.4 speaker setup sounds beyond excellent! Hats off to you.
Thanks, Jason. Awesome to hear that it is getting great results for people. 🙂
The thing I don’t get is my Yamaha Aventage receiver sets my 3 front speakers to “large” even though I know they only go down to 120Hz ( I know not great speakers ) so I set them to small .
Apologies for the late response.
Yes, that’s a good idea, Chris. It is a bit strange it would do that though but YPAO isn’t always very smart like that. I always recommend you set speakers to 80HZ or higher if the speakers can’t go low.
Great article. For me, the only problem is my TSR-7850 appears not to have a multi-point YPAO functionality – just single point. Or am I missing something? Do some YPAO just not have the multi-point capability?
As others have said, YPAO doesn’t quite know what to make of my sub, a Powered JBL CSS11. Wants to give it a -10 db, while jacking up the rest of the speaker system +4 to +8. When I run YPAO without the sub, I get much more sensible numbers, although relative db, each speaker to the other, is about the same. I’m running 5.1, with the front mains bi-amped.
Lastly, the TSR-7850 manual indicates speaker impedance should be 6 to 8 ohms, switching the ohm setting to 6 if necessary. Everything but the sub is 8 ohm in my system. The sub is 4 ohm (but powered). The receiver is set to the 8 ohm default. Could the 4 ohm sub be causing an issue?
Thank you
Hi Steve,
Single-point YPAO is not super accurate. You may need to run it a few times trying different spots at the listening position to get acceptable results. It’s also not great with subs so be free to set the sub level where it gels with the rest of the speakers by ear – or with a sound pressure / level meter. You could even download an app on your phone to measure relative sound pressure to adjust!
4ohm has nothing to do with it, since it’s powered so not to worry!
Thank you, Roland
I gather from the response that there are Yammi receivers, including mine, that have single point only YPAO – correct? Or could I be missing a setting somewhere? (I never underestimate the power of User Error, so have to ask).
I figured the sub’s amp eliminated the impedance issue, but again, had to ask.
Thanks, again. You have been very helpful.
Yes, some lower end receivers have only single point. In fact I have one of those in my possession in addition to a flagship. 🙂 no dramas re asking at all.
Just wanted to say thanks for this great article. I learned a lot. There is hardly and useful info on Yamaha receivers like what you provided.
Thx, Vimal. Glad it’s helped! 🙂
HELLO ROLAND GREAT ARTICLE..THANK YOU FOR ALL THE INPUT..SO I JUST WENT FROM A YAMMIE RX A 770 TO THE BIG DADDY 3080 AND I AM AMAZED AT ALL THE OPTIONS I DIDNT HAVE WITH THE A770..I HAVE A 7.2.2 SET UP WITH DEF TECH PROCINEMA 600 SATS WITH 2 DEF TECH SUBS 600, AND A PROCINEMA 1000 WITH ELAC 6.0 DEBUTS BOOKSHELVES AND KLIPSCH 41SA DOLBY ATMOS. I JUST RAN YPAO AND IT SET EVERYTHING TO SMALL EXCEPT MY ELACS TO LARGE AND I PLAYED HACKSAW RIDGE AND HAD TO PUT THE VOLUME WAY UP TO GET THE FULL AFFECT. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, I AM A MOVIE LOVER ONLY, NEVER LISTEN TO MUSIC, AND I HAVE EVERYTHING DOLBY VISION AND ATMOS, BUT I FEEL LIKE IM NOT SETTING UP THE SPEAKER LEVELS RIGHT.. THIS RECEIVER SHOULD PUSH ALL MY SPEAKERS TO THE FULLEST..I HAVE TO RAISE ALL MY DB SETTINGS ALMOST TO +10 AND THEN, UNFORTUNATELY, I START HEARING DISTORTION..CAN YOU GIVE ME SUM ADVICE ON HOW TO MANUALLY SET SPEAKER LEVELS AFTER I RUN YPAO..PS I DO ALL 8 POSITIONS AND ANGLE MEASURMENTS THRU YPAO..THANK YOU
Hi Jason,
Something is seriously wrong with your setup if you are getting those results.
Some things to check:
1. External amp levels if you are using it for any speakers or if any of your speakers are powered!
2. Speakers are in line of sight to the microphone.
3. Mic is plugged in properly and not in any way damaged!
Then follow this article to the letter measuring out all positions.
If you are still getting those results, you have a few options (not necessarily in this order):
– giving me a call and we set up a consult time over Skype to walk through your setup step by step. Please note there is a cost!
– you need to call Yamaha and see if there’s an issue with your amp!
– you unplug everything and check all your wiring.
Regarding the above, how do you know to what level for adjusting your external amps? Do you use that general guide of turning the receiver to reference (-17 or 0db?) and adjusting the amp gain until it reaches 85db?
I know this is a dumb question but do you mean when I actually run the YPAO, I put the volume to -17db? Sorry for the lack of knowledge lol
Nope, the receiver will set the sound pressure so it is at the correct sound pressure.
The -17dB discussion was just a curiosity. You can disregard it. 🙂
You can but you might damage your ears or your speakers depending on your setup.
Set the internal amp to a comfortable level and measure the sound pressure using the tone function and a sound pressure meter. Then adjust the external amp until it is at the same level.
75dB -85dB is a good one to aim for indeed but your mileage may vary.
Another option is to set the external amp to its middle point. That however may work if the amps are well matched or not if they are too mismatched in power.